Talk:Embrace, extend, and extinguish

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WHATWG[edit]

"In 2004, to prevent a repeat of the "browser wars", and the resulting morass of conflicting standards, the browser vendors Apple Inc. (Safari), Mozilla Foundation (Firefox), Google Inc. (Google Chrome) and Opera Software (Opera browser) formed the Web Hypertext Application Technology Working Group (WHATWG) to create ..." I cannot find any evidence that Google was involved in this in 2004. It's not mentioned in the history of the WHATWG page, for example. https://whatwg.org/news/start Certainly Google was not a "browser vendor" in 2004... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2620:0:1002:1006:944:31D5:B8D8:5A73 (talk) 00:26, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

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Opening sentence[edit]

That opening sentence, which begins

"Embrace, extend, and extinguish", also known as "Embrace, extend, and exterminate"...

is just irritating. First, according to MOS:WORDSASWORDS, shouldn't we use italics, not double quotes, when we state a phrase so that we are talking about the phrase, not using it? Second, what is this 'also known as' doing there? The phrase isn't 'known as' that other phrase, but the other one is a variant of it. It is not another name for the phrase, it is another version of the phrase. Unfortunately the rest of the sentence goes on

...is a phrase that the U.S. Department of Justice found was used internally by Microsoft...

so we can't say Embrace, extend, and extinguish, and its variant embrace, extend, and exterminate, are phrases that the U.S. Department of Justice found were used internally by Microsoft... because, presumably, the DoJ didn't find both of them.

Thirdly, I can never find a reference to it, but isn't there a policy or a guideline somewhere that says that Wikipedia articles are not meant to be about the word or words that make up the title, but about the concept that the words refer to. I think that this is the main difference between a dictionary and an encyclopedia, and so it's pretty important.

So, is there some way we can sort out this long and ugly single-sentence paragraph, that solves at least two of these problems? How about

Embrace, extend, and extinguish,[1] or embrace, extend, and exterminate,[2] is a business philosophy or guideline that was used internally by Microsoft.[3] The U.S. Department of Justice found[4] that Microsoft[5] employed the strategy by entering product categories involving widely used standards, extending those standards with proprietary capabilities, and then using those differences to disadvantage its competitors.

Is that still a fair description of the facts and findings? Is there a wordsmith here who can do a better job of untangling these ideas? --Nigelj (talk) 13:12, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ "Deadly embrace". The Economist. 2000-03-30. Retrieved 2006-03-31.
  2. ^ "Microsoft limits XML in Office 2003". Archived from the original on September 22, 2005. Retrieved 2006-03-31.
  3. ^ "US Department of Justice Proposed Findings of Fact". Usdoj.gov. Retrieved 2016-04-28.
  4. ^ "US Department of Justice Proposed Findings of Fact—Revised" (PDF). Usdoj.gov. Retrieved 2016-04-28.
  5. ^ "US Department of Justice Proposed Findings of Fact". Usdoj.gov. Retrieved 2016-04-28.

Requested move 14 August 2017[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: move (non-admin closure). feminist 15:59, 21 August 2017 (UTC)


Embrace, extend and extinguish → Embrace, extend, and extinguish – Most of this article seems to use serial commas, and we should be consistent with that usage, per MOS:SERIALCOMMA. Either this article should be moved, or the serial commas should be removed from the body text. nyuszika7h (talk) 14:51, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

  • Support. Usage in the article (while not entirely consistent) does seem to favor the serial comma, which I see is used three times in the lede alone. ╠╣uw [talk] 18:23, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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removed FUD link under see also[edit]

There was a link to FUD(Fear Uncertainty and Doubt) under the see also section. I removed it since it seems to imply that the EEE strategy is or was not in practice or a hoax, which it is certainly not. I do not have anything against covering different angles however that was not the case. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.164.174.47 (talk) 00:02, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

Non–standards-compliant[edit]

Opinions differ on the use of the ndash here. I took my cue from "non–brain-injured subjects" rather than "non-government-owned corporations".

See dash. — MaxEnt 16:21, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

I should not, for non-software people, that a lot of software out there is de facto "non-standard" compliant, so I found the phrase a bit jarring without the ndash, as my semantic and lexical worlds clashed (bugs in one package are deliberately emulated in another, until the bug is a feature). — MaxEnt 16:23, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

RedHat mention was removed[edit]

Why revert 904779272 and how this is SYNTH? As far as i'm concerned, removed paragraph didn't imply anything, it was describing similar strategy implemented by RedHat quoting direct speech from RedHat employees on this approach of theirs. There were also links to numerous efforts that open-source community has to take to workaround introduced interoperability problems.

There is a section to underline similar practices implemented by other companies. Why Netscape is allowed to be in that section, but RedHat isn't?

If there are any concerns with wording i think i can reword this paragraph. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Neuroblaster1 (talk • contribs) 20:40, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

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