Talk:Nigel Lawson

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Denial not Debate[edit]

Lawson shows no interest in debating global warming, what he is doing is more akin to denying global warming and I believeitwould be better ti change the word used in the article. Espeically with his Global Warming Policy foundaro, which is similar to the tactics used by tobacco companies to deny the health effects of tobacco.91.125.83.211 (talk) 00:03, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

I'm being blocked by some guy called ERK, who claims that the science behnd clmate changeis "highly debated", can I do something do prevent him from pushng his own agenda onto wikipedia?91.125.83.211 (talk) 00:10, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

You can leave this until a consensus is reached in the community, however I will suggest you read the following Wikipedia policies to familiarize yourself with proper terminology in editing Biographies on Wikipedia. WP:NPV, and WP:BLP should help you. Any further questions you may refer to my justification at this user's talk page. ERK talk 00:15, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
When people argue about topics, it's called debating. There is much debate about global warming, even though we know it's true, some people don't know that it is. We are not allowed to push our POV (Point of View). See WP:NPOV. Bluefist talk 00:14, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

There's a lot of debate about whether AIDS is real or not, should I remove the articles covering AIDS denial?91.125.83.211 (talk) 00:19, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

No, you should not, given the article has suffient sources. We don't deal with facts, we deal with reliable sources stating the facts. Bluefist talk 00:21, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_denial Just saying (at least say skeptic) 91.125.83.211 (talk) 00:24, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Lord Blabby seems to be deliberately denying climate change. He's not a skeptic, he is clearly a denier. 129.31.77.190 (talk) 09:11, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

NPOV? An IP has changed the article -in good faith but inappropriately -to give equal weight to Lawson's views. This is covered by WP:UNDUE -see Climate_change#Human_influences. I will partially revert it. JRPG (talk) 17:10, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

NPOV[edit]

The source for this article is principally Lawson's memoirs: 'The View from Number Eleven'. Personally I am sympathetic to Lawson. I suspect, that this is apparent from the content of the article but I believe I have made a reasonable effort to maintain NPOV. For balance I would recommend an external link to William Keegan's book 'Mr Lawson's Gamble' (I do not have other details) and possibly to Edmund(?) Dell's 'The Chancellors'.

There is probably more material worth adding to the article at the level of coverage that I have adopted. NL's opposition to the Poll Tax and his role in the formulation of the Toronto Terms for debt relief for Third World Countries are condidates, but I will await feedback for now. -- Alan Peakall

Liebsen[edit]

Was he, or his father, born Liebsen and changed the surname to Lawson on arrival to the UK? -- Chris 7-Sep-05

Cousins?[edit]

"Somewhere" I read a long time ago that Lawson, Leon Brittan (and by extension his brother Samuel Brittan), Keith Joseph and Malcolm Rifkind were variously related (two sets of second cousins?). Can anyone elaborate? (If there is a Wikipage dealing with "assorted relations" move this to there.)

Loan[edit]

When he was at the Spectator he bought an expensive house with a council loan. mikeL

Education[edit]

"After studying at Westminster and Christ Church, Oxford" No indication of what he studied -- Stephen Howe.

It says he studied at Beechwood Park School, but this cannot be correct. If you follow the link Beechwood Park was opened in 1964 when Lawson was 32! Also, the list of alumni does not include his name.Arcencielltd (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 07:59, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

Marriages[edit]

Either Lawson was a bigamist, or the overlapping time spans for his marriages are wrong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.167.168.68 (talk) 01:24, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Can't a better photo be found?[edit]

The photograph is absurd. Can't a better likeness be found? 173.16.252.154 (talk) 02:46, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

The absurdity is that this 80-year old man does not have a single grey hair on his head! 80.176.88.21 (talk) 17:49, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Children & BLPNAME[edit]

Hi Dozzzzzzzzzing_off. Whilst I totally agree with the wp:BLPNAME policy ..& it wouldn't really matter if I didn't ..there is nothing whatsoever to stop internal links to Nigella & Dominic. No reference is required for these. Regards JRPG (talk) 17:30, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

I know. There's nothing wrong with the internal links. I'm just saying further down the page it started listing his kids but only named five of them in the list, despite starting it with "His six children," and that bothered me. It's all good now, though. Thanks. Dozzzzzzzzzing off (talk) 21:41, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

Reason for Lawson's resignation[edit]

Sorry: incomplete link pasted in regard to edit on reason for Lawson's resignation http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/new-light-on-chancellors-exit-margaret-thatchers-recollections-of-a-turbulent-decade-at-the-helm-of-the-conservative-party-and-britain-are-published-today-the-resignation-of-nigel-lawson-donald-macintyre-notes-the-protagonists-differing-memories-of-the-events-of-1989-1511491.html Gravuritas (talk) 17:57, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

Gravitas, I think you should include a brief summary from your new-found article as it shows that there was either a misunderstanding or more likely Thatcher simply needed Lawson as a cover for implementing Walters views. Regards JRPG (talk) 23:33, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
I think it's more complicated than that: Lawson had secretly been making the pound shadow the ERM, iirc, by varying interest rates, which to be blunt was one of his few cock-ups. Walters was making speeches that could be taken as critical of Lawson's actions but Thatcher allowed Lawson a very free rein- understandably as he had done an excellent job before then. I found the Independent article to support deletion of the 'reason for resignation' inserted a couple of edits back, but was largely uninformative: it blathers on about who did what on the day, but doesn't cover the real issues. In the background there was also a large difference of opinion on the poll tax, which Lawson scuppered by insisting on it paying its way from year 1, guaranteeing some serious resistance from the losers- and this disagreement if I've got the timing right may also have been in both Lawson's & Thatcher's minds. But sourcing that is beyond me at present.
Gravuritas (talk) 23:47, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

Skeptic?[edit]

Is it really reasonable to describe Lawson as being skeptical of climate change? Given that he disagrees with what is generally accepted in the scientific world, this seems to take his POV. Skepticism implies an unwillingness to believe something without evidence, yet Lawson dismisses all evidence he finds inconvenient and uncritically accepts what little might support his views. We would not accept someone's claim of being 'skeptical' of evolution by natural selection or that the Earth orbits the sun or that HIV causes Aids. Booshank (talk) 19:21, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Think this is covered in denial not debate heading. It is not in his financial interest to believe it or to spend time studying it. WP:FLAT applies! JRPG (talk) 20:56, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Novel "GB84"[edit]

I've always wondered who the politician referred to as "The Jew" was in David Peace's novel about the 1984-5 miners' strike, GB84. Is it Nigel Lawson? He was Energy Secretary at the time and, according to this article, is from a Jewish family.

I would recommend that this be included in the article, if there's a source to suggest that it's true. Epa101 (talk)

The nickname could equally have applied to Leon Brittan, (like Lawson also of Baltic Jewish origin) who was Home Secretary when the strike began, and thus responsible for the policing of the dispute.Cloptonson (talk) 13:20, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
It is neither Lawson, not Brittan. In The Independent, in a conversation between GB84 author David Peace and Mike Marqusee of The Independent he is identified as David Hart, a "right-wing millionaire who advised Margaret Thatcher and the Coal Board".[1]--Terry Patterson (talk) 21:40, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Marqusee, Mike (5 March 2004). "David Peace: State of the union rights". The Independent. Retrieved 7 June 2018.

To Govern is to Choose[edit]

If somebody has a copy of his memoirs to hand (or a copy of Hansard, or something similar - I think Lawson said it in his resignation speech), iirc he attributed this quote to Pierre Mendes-France.Paulturtle (talk) 17:56, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

Photograph duplicated!![edit]

Why does the same photograph appear twice? There is a second photo available Nigel Lawson 006.jpg dating to 2006 but like the first no context is provided. I will remove the lower photo on WP:BRD. JRPG (talk) 10:20, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

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High Net Worth People[edit]

Spam Gravuritas (talk) 15:55, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

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BBC Radio 4 broke impartiality rules in Nigel Lawson climate change interview[edit]

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/apr/09/bbc-radio-4-broke-impartiality-rules-in-nigel-lawson-climate-change-interview

John Cummings (talk) 14:35, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Euroscepticism[edit]

The lead claims "He has been an active supporter of the Eurosceptic pressure group Leave Means Leave" (to which I have added "despite residing in France") - but there seems to be no substantial mention of Lawson's position on the EU in the main body of the article. JezGrove (talk) 22:35, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

The article does say that he chaired the Vote Leave campaign. I think that is a pretty substantial mention of his position.--Terry Patterson (talk) 12:23, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
One thing I do find odd is that there is no substantial section on his position on European institutions, given that he has been involved in a significant with them over much of his political life. It detracts from the value of the article. A tiny little section at the beginning is not enough.--Terry Patterson (talk) 13:17, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

References[edit]

The Biases in this Article are an Unacceptable Violation of Wikipedia Rules[edit]

When reading an article such as this one, an objective individual would come away with an unsympathetic opinion of Nigel Lawson and far greater belief in centre-left politics which, therefore, renders this article nonobjective. Rule 9 of Wikipedia's Ten Simple Rules for Editing Wikipedia states quite clearly that 'all Articles on Wikipedia should be impartial in tone and content'.[1] This article's content, while questionable is not near so much my objection as the tone and rhetoric on issues such as Brexit and Climate Change. Below are my grievances which I would strongly recommend revision to:

1. At the very beginning of the article (and therefore what most people whom visit this page will read), it states that Lawson "has been an active supporter of the Eurosceptic pressure group Leave Means Leave despite residing in France." The language of objection in this sentence is namely the word "despite". Despite, according to the Oxford dictionary, means "in spite of" or "without being affected by".[2] This would therefore imply that Lord Lawson's support of Brexit and euroscepticism is contradicted by the fact that he enjoys living in France, a country in the European Union. However, the very existence of such a contradiction is debatable. The Oxford Dictionary defines Eurosceptic as the belief in 'A person who is opposed to increasing the powers of the European Union.'[3] Is it therefore not possible to love Europe and her cultures and languages but still believe in a British withdrawal from the European Union? As Nigel Lawson himself stated in 2016, "I love Europe! That's why I live in France...[Brexit] would be good for the countries of Europe" [4]. Lawson's views on Brexit are not at all discussed in the article. While the subject of his residency has caused controversy, this article should have a whole, balanced section on this this matter. I would propose removing "despite residing in France" and add a sentence to the subsequent paragraph simply stating that he currently lives in France.

2. The commentary on Climate Change in this article is among the worst I have ever read. Aside from there pexisting confusing and even unfinished sentences, it is ultimately unfairly biased. Every single time Lawson's point of view on the subject is stated, opinions of other people whom disagree with Lawson are put in place to supposedly refute Lawson. As a matter of fact, the only outside quotes and commentary regarding climate change in this article are critical of Lawson. From this article one would take away that Lawson is wrong. In Rule 9 of Wikipedia's 10 rules it states that "an article on a scientific controversy should describe both the scientific consensus and significant fringe theories While, climate scepticism should not hold as much weight as mainstream views, they should at least be described. Words such as denial should also be changed to sceptic. How is it objective that in each paragraph, his position is torn apart? Why can't more weight be given to his point of view. Raking a more or less random paragraph as an example, notice the subjective style of writing: "In a BBC radio interview in August 2017, Lawson falsely claimed that "official figures" showed "average world temperature has slightly declined" over the preceding decade, and that experts in the IPCC found no increase in extreme weather events. In a follow-up programme on the BBC's presentation of these claims, Peter A. Stott of the UK Met Office said Lawson was wrong on both points. Concern about the unopposed presentation of Lawson's fringe views was raised with the BBC Complaints Unit, which agreed in October 2017 that Lawson's statements "were, at the least, contestable and should have been challenged". In a letter to a complainant, the BBC complaints director offered "apologies, on behalf of the BBC, for the breach of editorial standards you identified."" From this paragraph, one might deduce that Lawson a fool. Not only is no response permitted for Lawson to explain himself, crucial parts of this story are missing. There is no mention of Lawson's apology.[5]. There is also no mention on Lawson's reaction to the story. Viewers of this article did not visit to hear other people's opinions on Lawson's opinions. He wrote an entire book on climate change. Surely, more of his views can be placed in this article. Words such as "fringe" are unfair as well--surely the word controversial is more objective and fitting?

I believe in climate change. I simply think that Wikipedia articles should be objective. I would very much like to hear others' opinions on the subject.

References

  1. ^ "Wikipedia:Ten Simple Rules for Editing Wikipedia", Wikipedia, 2018-04-13, retrieved 2018-06-29
  2. ^ "despite | Definition of despite in English by Oxford Dictionaries". Oxford Dictionaries | English. Retrieved 2018-06-29.
  3. ^ "Eurosceptic | Definition of Eurosceptic in English by Oxford Dictionaries". Oxford Dictionaries | English. Retrieved 2018-06-29.
  4. ^ Aitkenhead, Decca (2016-04-02). "Nigel Lawson on Brexit: 'I love Europe! That's why I live in France. But the EU has no purpose'". the Guardian. Retrieved 2018-06-29.
  5. ^ "UK's leading climate sceptics admit claim that global temperature has fallen was false". The Independent. Retrieved 2018-06-29.
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