Talk:1948 Palestinian exodus

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I dispute the Neutrality of this section.[edit]

According to historian Benny Morris, the period was marked by Palestinian Arab attacks and Jewish defensiveness, increasingly punctuated by Jewish reprisals.[7]:65 Simha Flapan pointed out that attacks by the Irgun and Lehi resulted in Palestinian Arab retaliation and condemnation.[22] Jewish reprisal operations were directed against villages and neighborhoods from which attacks against Jews were believed to have originated.[7]:76

Totally agree. Turning point was [1929 Hebron massacre]. The Arabs tried to ethnically cleanse Jewish refugees. The Jews defended themselves. Every time they were attacked, they fought back and started taking ground off their attackers. The degree of bias in this article is just obscene. 14.200.91.233 (talk) 22:47, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

I suggest making a list of attacks on record. That may remove the author biases — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eshaparvathi (talk • contribs) 13:18, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

Benny Morris is a revisionist historian whose perspective is not shared by others. Ilan Pappe documents clearly that the attacks by zionist organisations were offensives with the declared objective of clearing land for Jewish settlement.

Boynamedsue (talk) 08:36, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

Morris is one of most respected historians in the field - very well cited. Icewhiz (talk) 08:56, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

Yet he pushes a particular point of view which minimises the planned aspect of the ethnic cleanising of Arabs from Palestine, often directly contradicted by the words of the participants. The destruction of villages and murders of civilians, were often completely unrelated to the Arab attacks, usually against military convoys, which they were "avenging". The use of the word "retaliation" by zionist groups to describe blowing up houses with children in them, or machine-gunning people at random as they left their houses, was euphemistic.

Boynamedsue (talk) 06:24, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 February 2019[edit]

This entire article is propaganda; lies masquerading as truth. There is no context of reality that stands the test of history; except revisionist history. There a few truths hidden among too many falsehoods. This exposes the weakness of Wikipedia to research its own articles; a fact that is the result of limited funding (I wonder why I donate anything at all?). Bill Josephs (talk) 04:10, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Roadguy2 (talk) 04:14, 26 February 2019 (UTC)
 Not done: if you disagree with the contents of this article, please suggest changes rather than attack the content. Wikipedia intentionally does not conduct its own research per policy. --DannyS712 (talk) 04:16, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Article: Haaretz, Hagar Shezaf, "Burying the Nakba", 05 July 2019.[edit]

Haaretz - Hagar Shezaf - Burying the Nakba, How Israel systematically hides evidence of 1948 expulsion of Arabs, 05 July 2019.

The article links to a translation of a Shai (Shin Bet precursor), Arab Section report dated 30 June 1948: Migration of Eretz Yisrael Arabs between December 1, 1947 and June 1, 1948.

    ←   ZScarpia   15:11, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

Hagar Shezaf's Haaretz article has just been cited in this edit.     ←   ZScarpia   00:30, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

@ZScarpia: In conjunction with the report in Haaretz, the report by Akevot is also citable. Actually we should have an article on Akevot and it should enjoy RS status, with or without attribution depending on the nature of the material. Zerotalk 08:00, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

Thanks. Excellent! I'm just wondering how the material should be used.     ←   ZScarpia   09:41, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

Is there some way to access the entire Haaretz article? --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 10:18, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

Does this work: [1]? Zerotalk 10:48, 6 July 2019 (UTC)


Apologies for below. I posted without reading the section above. I'll leave it in any case.

(a) Yehiel Horev launched a project named Malmab which scours archives to secure sensitive documents covering reports of massacres and expulsions of the Palestinian population in 1948. The purpose was,'to undermine the credibility of studies about the history of the refugee problem. In Horev's view, an allegation made by a researcher that's backed up by an original document is not the same as an allegation that cannot be proved or refuted.'

(b) A contemporary Shai or Israeli intelligence report The Emigration of the Arabs of Palestine, written at the time of the events, in June 1948, one since classified as secret, set forth an analysis of the basic reasons for the exodus of Palestinians, in descending order of importance.

The first reason: "Direct Jewish acts of hostility against Arab places of settlement." The second reason was the impact of those actions on neighboring villages. Third in importance came "operations by the breakaways," namely the Irgun and Lehi undergrounds. The fourth reason for the Arab exodus was orders issued by Arab institutions and "gangs" (as the document refers to all Arab fighting groups); fifth was "Jewish 'whispering operations' to induce the Arab inhabitants to flee"; and the sixth factor was "evacuation ultimatums." cited Hagar Shezaf  'Burying the Nakba: How Israel Systematically Hides Evidence of 1948 Expulsion of Arabs,' Haaretz 5 July, 2019

- Nishidani (talk) 14:10, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

Evidently, the whole article requires a rewrite, since we have strong evidence that it is an active policy to classify as secret much of the factual record in archives that might prove deleterious to Zionistr mythology, in order to invalidate any historical research that once had access to such key documentation about expulsion policy, massacres etc.

- Nishidani (talk) 14:16, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

There's a nice Yehiel Horev quote at the top of the Akevot report linked to by Zero: "Even if somebody writes the horse is black, if the horse is not outside the stable, it cannot be proven it is actually black."     ←   ZScarpia   14:29, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

For fans of Mondoweiss, one article by Yossi Gurvitz and another by Jonathan Ofir which contain, I think, some additional details: [2][3].     ←   ZScarpia   12:13, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

And an editorial from Haaretz: [4].     ←   ZScarpia   12:16, 8 July 2019 (UTC)


Details about previous attempts to obscure the Israeli role in creating the exodus:

"The International Diplomacy of Israel's Founders, Deception at the United Nations in the Quest for Palestine" (2016) - John Quigley:

p222:

"In 1961, US President John Kennedy ramped up pressure on Israel to repatriate the displaced Palestine Arabs. Ben Gurion decided to shore up Israel's story about the exodus in order to blunt this effort at forcing Israel to repatriate. Ben Gurion called a meeting of top officials in his Tel Aviv office.The result of the meeting was the organization of a coterie of researchers at an Israeli think tank to undertake what Ben Gurion called "a serious operation, both in written form and in oral hasbara," to show that the Arabs were not forced out. One product of that effort was the publication in 1969 of a pamphlet, issued by the Foreign Ministry, then headed by Abba Eban as Foreign Minister. The pamphlet addressed the Deir Yassin incident. The pamphlet sought to justify the Irgun and LEHI."

p222-223:

"In 1979, the Government of Israel took another action to cover up its role in the 1948 Arab exodus. Second only to the Deir Yassin killings,the incident that gained the most notoriety from the 1948 events was the expulsion of theArab populations of Lydda and Ramleh.By 1979,Yitzhak Rabin had served a term as prime minister of Israel and was writing a memoir.In the memoir,Rabin described his activity during 1948,including what he did as a commander at Lydda and Ramleh in July 1948. In that description, Rabin explained how he had implemented Ben Gurion's order to expel the Lydda and Ramleh Arabs. A Government censorship board vetted Rabin's draft and made him delete his account of expelling the Lydda and Ramleh Arabs. The deleted sections were obtained by the media. The New York Times published a summary of them. ... The deleted sections gave, in sum, an accurate account of the expulsions from the two Arab towns. These sections did not appear in Rabin's memoir as published."

p232:

"The Ministry of Foreign Affairs, on its website in recent years, has repeated what Shertok and Eban told the United Nations in 1948. The website, as of 2015, stated with regard to the exodus of Palestine Arabs in 1948,'Many Palestinian Arabs who lived in areas where the fighting took place abandoned their homes, either at the request, of Arab leaders, or due to fear of the fighting and the uncertainty of living under Jewish rule.' 'Israel does not bear any culpability for the creation or the perpetuation of the Palestinian refugee problem,' the Foreign Ministry website stated."

    ←   ZScarpia   09:24, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

Benny Morris has weighed in, citing documents on Deir Yassin as examples of things that were once accessible to him but later closed. Zerotalk 07:19, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

    • I wonder if we should have an article about this report? Its modern "rediscovery" was, as we know, published as an article by Morris in 1986, repackaged in the 1994 book: 1948 and After.
    • Then we have the modern Malmab involvement, trying to make it off-limits. Then the Haaretz June−19 article.
    • The appendix in the original June 30, 1948 report has lots of interesting nuggets: I would like to add them to the −48 villages which are mentioned. Huldra (talk) 22:25, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

Replace broken link[edit]

Hello can someone with enough privilege replace the broken link to "Ruling Palestine, A History of the Legally Sanctioned Jewish-Israeli Seizure of Land and Housing in Palestine." Publishers: COHRE & BADIL, May 2005 from the cohre.org website to this one: http://www.badil.org/phocadownloadpap/Badil_docs/publications/Ruling%20Palestine.pdf

Thanks. It could also be nice to gather the different page citations to this only PDF. Faidherbard (talk) 01:16, 11 November 2019 (UTC)

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