Talk:Sixth Amendment to the United States Constitution

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Apprendi[edit]

There is no reference to Apprendi v. New Jersey. This decision was expanded this year by Alleyne v. United States. I plan to add material regarding these cases, but everyone else should feel welcome to do so. SMP0328. (talk) 04:52, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

"...and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence [sic]"[edit]

Wasn't the original intention of the above simply to mean that the government couldn't forbid an accused person from having counsel? In other words, if the government wanted to get someone (like an Al Capone), they could get him by arresting him and making sure he was put away for good (because he wasn't allowed to have a lawyer)? Was it only in the 20th century that Justices took the literal meaning of the words and extended the implied meaning that the government had to provide counsel? __209.179.13.130 (talk) 17:05, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

That federal and State governments were never allowed to deny counsel. In the 20th century, the Supreme Court started requiring the providing of counsel (see Powell v. Alabama (1932) and Gideon v. Wainwright (1963)). SMP0328. (talk) 18:52, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for answering but that wasn't the point of the question. If you got into a time machine and went back to 1787 and asked John Adams or James Madison about this very point, would he say that the 6th Amendment does or does not require the government to pay for an accused person's attorney? This point should be made clear in the article. __209.179.13.130 (talk) 03:27, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

That subsection refers to all Supreme Court decisions regarding when a government needs to appoint counsel for indigent defendants. When did such a requirement come about? Before Powell, the Supreme Court had not interpreted the Constitution to have such a requirement. Does that mean this requirement existed when the Bill of Rights was adopted, was created by the Bill of Rights, by the Fourteenth Amendment, when Powell was decided, when Gideon was decided, or some other time? The answer should be left to each reader, rather than the article answering for them. SMP0328. (talk) 04:17, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Should it? Or is there sourcing that says when? That is, a source that expressly says (frex) the Framers meant it to be so? Or the dissenters in a case before Powell? TREKphiler ^{any time you're ready, Uhura} 20:23, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

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