Talk:List of countries and dependencies by population density

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Palestine[edit]

Palestine, known by its official name - the Palestinian Authority Contains According to scientific studies (not politically biased), 2.75 million people (as of 2011)

see - http://izsvideo.org/papers/Demographic%20Trends%20in%20Israel%202010%20Summary%20Update%20Eng,%20RL.pdf

Palestine[edit]

This [OR Edit] by AutoH2ORepublican on 5 March 2019 changed the long standing numbering of Palestine with the following reason "Removing number on list from de facto sovereign states that are not generally recognized as such (Palestine and Taiwan), which is consistent with the treatment of Kosovo". This is not only OR, it is incorrect as well.Selfstudier (talk) 18:31, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

In fact, Palestine was continuously numbered from 2008 until the above mentioned edit and when another editor tried to change it back to the long established consensus, it was reverted with a similarly OR and incorrect reason.I have restored the other editor's edit so as to reestablish the long time consensus.Selfstudier (talk) 04:09, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

It has been pointed out to me that the split into numbered and unnumbered entities only occurred for this article on the same day as the above mentioned OR Edit, therefore it is not the case that there was a prior long term consensus except in the sense that it was always numbered; however, this does not alter the OR/incorrect reasoning used in both cases mentioned.Selfstudier (talk) 18:14, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

Since it is unclear on what basis the rank numbering has been done I have amended the lead to reflect the basis on which it appears to have been done ie All 193 UN member states plus the Vatican have been number ranked.Selfstudier (talk) 14:57, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

UK vs constituent countries[edit]

Including England, Scotland, Wales etc separately but no entry for the UK as whole seems wrong to me. We don't list US states separately here even though they also have their own legislatures, laws etc. I suspect it's also partially driven by someone's political agenda. 65.240.194.232 (talk) 15:43, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

On the substance, I think you are entirely right. On the motivation, it would not surprise me. Reverted. Kahastok talk 18:31, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

I think a better justification for the subunits of the UK being on this list needs to be made on the talk page before they're just re-added. Why are they the only non-dependency subnational divisions on the list? Thinking of just deleting them myself. - ҉ Randwicked ҉ 23:04, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

If they get put back in without consensus, then please do!

I just removed them in this case. The inclusion criteria for this list are perfectly clear, and England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland do not meet those criteria. Kahastok talk 16:32, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

@Kahastok and Randwicked: Forgive me for restarting this, but doesn't this list include constituent countries as an inclusion criteria? The constituent countries of the Kingdom of the Netherlands and Denmark are listed, for example (e.g. Curaçao, Sint Maarten, Greenland). — MarkH₂₁^talk 14:12, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

No, it doesn't. The inclusion criteria are ISO 3166-1 plus states with limited recognition. This is as stated by the second paragraph of the lede. No part of the inclusion criteria - or indeed any other part of the article - mentions constituent countries (a concept that is not well defined). Kahastok talk 14:57, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

Ah okay, thanks. I'll at least note in the lead that the list includes some constituent countries, as it's done at List of countries and dependencies by population, as it clarifies the situation for readers. — MarkH₂₁^talk 15:15, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

I'm not very keen on the wording from that article. It's rather misleading to treat "constituent country" as a meaningful category in its own right, since it encompasses a huge range of different statuses (the link actually goes to a disambiguation page). The Dutch Caribbean, Greenland and the Faroe Islands can reasonably be treated as dependent territories.

I have tried to come up with a wording that resolves this. Kahastok talk 16:26, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

Ranks are incorrect[edit]

Starting from number 35 (Kuwait), multiple countries with same values have been given the next rank when they should be in one rank. Tons of clean-up needed. Hopefully, some editors can help out. •Shawnqual• 📚 • 💭 05:56, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

You're correct that if there are ties that the rank number should be the same, but there are no actual ties in population density among countries. Some countries appear to have the same population density because of rounding. AuH2ORepublican (talk) 17:39, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

AuH2ORepublican, Rounding off is also inconsistent in the list, some countries have rounded off to one place while most have been rounded off to 0. Any reason behind that? Rounding off could actually be done to 2 places so every country's value is unique. Then there would be no doubts in ties. If the values are not rounded off at all ( like currently is the case), how do we decide which countries comes above another? Do we list them alphabetically then? If yes, some are still out of order, like Kuwait coming before Jamaica. A note must be written at the top of the list, so future editors can know how to place ranks. I also think this template could help with automated ranks. •Shawnqual• 📚 • 💭 18:43, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

I agree that numbers should be presented to two decimal points so that it is more obvious that there are no ties, but rest assured that the odds of two countries having exactly the same population density (exact population divided by exact area) would be astronomically snall. There can't possibly be any actual ties, so there would be no reason to list countries alphabetically. AuH2ORepublican (talk) 23:15, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Area used for density includes internal water eg lakes[edit]

Is this the best approach? For some countries, eg the Netherlands (over 19% water), it makes a significant difference. Open water really isn't comparable in terms of possible uses to land. Peace Makes Plenty (talk) 14:35, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

True, but neither are mountains or dense forests. Where does one draw the line?---Ehrenkater (talk) 14:39, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

Well, we could draw it at the water's edge, since most (all?) of the figures for countries in Wikipedia include the amount that is water. The figures for Uganda, for instance, seem to include their 'share' of Lake Victoria. Countries with a coastline on the sea won't include the large stretches of water next to them. Peace Makes Plenty (talk) 14:48, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

ANHDUC - WIKI 2

Wednesday, August 12, 2020