Talk:Profumo affair

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Featured articleProfumo affair is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
Main Page trophyThis article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on August 9, 2014.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
February 11, 2014Peer reviewReviewed
February 22, 2014Featured article candidatePromoted
Current status: Featured article

Title[edit]

Shouldn't it be "Profumo affair"? --Kevin W. - Talk 16:09, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

A good point. Most recent media and book references use the lower case format, although it can be argued that the "affair" extends well beyond matters directly relevant to Profumo himself. I am planning some major expansion of the article, and will address the point then. Brianboulton (talk) 16:59, 18 January 2014 (UTC)
This change has now been done. Brianboulton (talk) 10:04, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Expansion[edit]

I have begun a substantial expansion of this article, using multiple up-to-date sources which should deal with many of the points of ctiticism that have been raised on this talkpage. During this process the article will look incomplete, though I hope to be finished in a week or two. It would be helpful if editors would make comments/suggestions here, rather than as add-ons to the text while it is developing. Brianboulton (talk) 17:11, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

Nice work. Are you looking for suggestions? --John (talk) 17:19, 3 February 2014 (UTC)
Happy with suggestions, less happy with text added without discussion. For example, I don't feel that the stuff you've added relating to Astor warrants inclusion, at least, not without some discussion. I don't see why we need to add Marr as an additional source, either; all he has to say is covered by existing sources. Simply adding further inessential detail will soon bloat an article which has been crafted very carefully. If, on the other hand, you feel that essential information is missing, can I draw you attention to the article's current peer review, where such matters can be fully discussed. Brianboulton (talk) 21:15, 3 February 2014 (UTC)
Ah, ok. --John (talk) 21:16, 3 February 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, no offence. Brianboulton (talk) 23:19, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Reference to Killer Queen by Queen[edit]

The source you quote for the reference, http://rock.rapgenius.com/Queen-killer-queen-lyrics#note-800842 makes no mention of the song being anything to do with Christine Keeler.

However, this IS verifiable

In the New Musical Express November 2, 1974, the song's writer Freddie Mercury elucidates on this song: "It's about a high class call girl. I'm trying to say that classy people can be whores as well. That's what the song is about, though I'd prefer people to put their interpretation upon it - to read into it what they like."

Although Christine Keeler at the time of the Profumo affair could quite possibly be described as a high class call girl, there is absolutely no evidence to connect the song with Christine Keeler.

Unless you have any reliable citations for the reference to Killer Queen, can you remove it please?

Sorry, but there is evidence of this being part of a bigger conspiracy than I feel entitled to clarify. So, just two things instead: England is 'Illuminati' ground zero. A killer/keeler homophone is typical for 'how they do it'. Lucy in the sky blabla. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.0.85.243 (talk) 04:50, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

Use of 'May'[edit]

'His Conservative Party was marked by the scandal, which may have contributed to its defeat by Labour in the 1964 general election.'

It is widely acknowledged that it did contribute to the defeat.
There is no way of knowing for sure, however general the assumption that it did, so the cautionary "may" is appropriate. Brianboulton (talk) 11:23, 10 August 2014 (UTC)


'After his marriage in 1954 to Valerie Hobson, one of Britain's leading film actresses, he may have conducted casual affairs, using late-night parliamentary sittings as his cover.'

A pointless statement that does not impact on the story. Valetude (talk) 06:04, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
This reflects the source: "Profumo may have been among [those] who used late-night sittings to provide alibis for their amorous adventuring ... David Profumo suspects that, while Minister of War, his father had an intrigue with a woman of his own social set..." etc. This is relevant background information which helps us to understand how the affair with Keeler came about. Brianboulton (talk) 11:23, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Immoral earnings[edit]

There was not, and is not, any offence of "living off immoral earnings" in England and Wales. See Brecht for one reason why: "robbing a bank's no crime compared to owning one".

The actual offence was "Man living on the earnings of prostitution", s30 of the Sexual Offences Act 1956:

"(1) It is an offence for a man knowingly to live wholly or in part on the earnings of prostitution.

(2) For the purposes of this section a man who lives with or is habitually in the company of a prostitute, or who exercises control, direction or influence over a prostitute's movements in a way which shows he is aiding, abetting or compelling her prostitution with others, shall be presumed to be knowingly living on the earnings of prostitution, unless he proves the contrary."

It has since been replaced by the gender-neutral "Controlling prostitution for gain" of the Sexual Offences Act 2003. Lovingboth (talk) 20:15, 11 August 2014 (UTC)


By 1975 he had been officially rehabilitated, although he did not return to public life. He died, honoured and respected, in 2006

Who wrote this fluff? 82.46.109.233 (talk) 10:13, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

Re above: it is probably better to frame comments in a less negative way, but the "fluff", as you call it, accurately represents the tributes paid to Profumo on his death. The purpose of the wording was to contrast his post-affair public rehabilitation with the fate of Keeler, who has not, as yet, receeived the same degree of public forgiveness. I won't fully reinstate the words, but the year of his death needs to be noted. Brianboulton (talk) 14:00, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

The article does not convey the visual impact of the incident.[edit]

The details of the incident and the length of its story are within the Wikipedia article, the Profumo affair. But the visual impact was as much the occasion during what was happening as the facts of the matter of what was occurring.

The visual impact of the strikingly remote brunette Christine Keeler and the pert immediacy of the blonde Mandy Rice-Davies were a black and white gold mine to the newspapers of the world. Never had so much black ink been used in the printing on white newsprint to so great effect and to the greatest interest to the most people since Peace in 1945.

The visual impact of the event was unforgettable and the social force the printed and filmic images created were integral to what was lived through by the watching and reading world. But nowhere can a reader of the Wikipedia article on the Profumo affair get the idea of it. --Laurencebeck (talk) 03:20, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

Indeed: I looked up the iconic taxi photos and I feel what you mean. They were stylish. Such visuals should be included here.

A major difficulty is that (in most cases) we do not display photos unless we are sure that copyright has expired (which in Britain is 70 years after the photograher's death) or the copyright holder has issued a licence to use the photo freely. However, WP:NFCI lists some circumstances where a "non-free" image can be used. Can a case be made that any of the images you have in mind are, for example, "iconic"? It needs to be the photograph that is iconic, not merely a photo of an iconic scene. Thincat (talk) 11:35, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
This is my topic, if I might say that. I introduced it. But I did not introduce the word iconic. Iconic means that entered into conversation, not on a London bus, but say at an opening of new stylish restaurant, an early photograph of, say Lee Miller, will bring some form of cachet to a general atmosphere. --Laurencebeck (talk) 12:18, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

D notices[edit]

there are some files now restricted connected wit the affair. That they were sealed is released as of this week.

The Profumo affair Major was given permission to read the secret evidence files gathered for the 1963 investigation into the Profumo affair and agreed that they should be withheld for 100 years.

The cabinet secretary, Sir Robin Butler, first alerted Downing Street to the need to review the notorious scandal, according to files released to the National Archives.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/dec/28/national-archives-john-majors-aides-emails-were-passing-fad — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.249.7.24 (talk) 11:59, 28 December 2018 (UTC)

Strangers and Brothers[edit]

When Quaife, Secretary of State, tells protagonist Lewis Eliott in episode 11 about an adulterous scandal about to burst on him, is that a reference to this? The episode is on YouTube. 100.15.127.199 (talk) 14:33, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

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